Easiest, most useful language to get started programming

[shreal]

I've done some lolscriptkiddy shit back in the day making aol proggies n what not but that wasn't programming. What should i start learning? VB? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[sn1per]

Depends on what you want to do. What do you want to do?

[RMK MAKES AN EXTRA $170/DAY NOW]

Pascal lol

[shreal]

Anything that can help me in the grind, mostly looking to make personal use applications.

To be honest I want to learn how maps programs work and make my own.

I'm at 0 here and I admit that, but the stuff you guys talk about fascinates me and I am tired of doing everything by hand/mooching.

[emo porn]

brad msg me on aim

[shreal]

Like back when mturk was a broken ATM i wanted to make my own apps for it so badly.

shit like that

i also want to get an understanding of programming, it seems to be invaluable and I could never get into it in the past, this time I think I have what it takes to fulfill that desire.

[Vershun]

C# and Java are very clean high-level languages to start with.

Python is also good for beginners but it's a scripting language and has quite a few quirks.

[sn1per]

Yeah I agree with versh, god of all that's code. C# is nice, and you can make beautiful web apps. As well you can take the same knowledge and take it into complied code as well weather it's linux or windows.

If you're gonna start, might as well start running.

[shreal]

Thanks guys, any good guides that can help me get a feel for C#?

Programming overwhelms the fuck out of me

[sn1per]

brand0n posted the links to the express versions of visual studio in whywork i think

Brand0n incoming?

[b0r]

ASY. Oh wait mebe VB.

[pleb]

another vote for C#

http://www.microsoft.com/express/product/

The AJAX controls integration using the full version of Studio for web apps is sweet, I'd assume its comparable for the express version.

[mcbain]

if you have seen and worked in vb even a little bit i would start with vb.net

otherwise if you brain is clean, start with c#

[shreal]

I downloaded C# and did some tuts but this all seems basic to me, arrays, loops, common sense shit. Where can i find some tutorials that will put me in the right direction to make web apps and shit? Like i have one example, a friend adder on digg, or a yellowpage scraper, what would I have to know to do this? This might sound all really noob of me but I need a little guidance.

[sn1per]

Well all languages will have the basic constructs, arrays, loops etc. If you want to make a program, you should break up what you want it to do in smaller parts, then take each part and break that up into smaller functions, and then work on each functions to make your part, to make your program.

[shreal]

Would a yellowpage scraper be too high of a goal to attempt on the first learning project?

Anything similar that i can fuck around with to get a feel for the basic programming structure, any projects i can look at?

[sn1per]

I wouldn't think so, then again i never programed in C ;/. It's just an html parser so i can't imagine it would be to hard in any language.

[Vershun]

I downloaded C# and did some tuts but this all seems basic to me, arrays, loops, common sense shit. Where can i find some tutorials that will put me in the right direction to make web apps and shit? Like i have one example, a friend adder on digg, or a yellowpage scraper, what would I have to know to do this? This might sound all really noob of me but I need a little guidance.

For starting with your first true language get yourself an actual good book and go through the entire thing. It will be tedious as fuck, frustrating, annoyingly easy, and will give you nothing applicable in the end but it will help you immensely.

So many people that learn from examples do stupid ass things because they don't know any better (paging the whole PHP community), learn all the basics before you get into an actual project and then you'll be able to pick up other languages straight from examples and tutorials.

So many people use arrays when they should be using trees or hashes, functions instead of classes, incorrect namespacing, sloppy thread control, etc. This is shit you learn from a book.

[shreal]

Book recommendation, Vershun?

[Vershun]

/fail :P.

I learned C# independently, I learned C/C++/Java with books. Going to have to find someone who does C# professionally probably to give you a really good recommendation. Check out #C# on freenode.net

[Napolean]

For starting with your first true language get yourself an actual good book and go through the entire thing. It will be tedious as fuck, frustrating, annoyingly easy, and will give you nothing applicable in the end but it will help you immensely.

So many people that learn from examples do stupid ass things because they don't know any better (paging the whole PHP community), learn all the basics before you get into an actual project and then you'll be able to pick up other languages straight from examples and tutorials.

So many people use arrays when they should be using trees or hashes, functions instead of classes, incorrect namespacing, sloppy thread control, etc. This is shit you learn from a book.

LOL I have to admit that I'm guilty of this, I also always try to find new ways of doing things and the end result is almost always "why didnt I just do it this way all along?"

I'm not sure whats involved with making a yellowpages scraper (unless you mean just parsing information out of the site), if I'm correct this shouldnt be too hard especially since .net already has web components that make page requests simple.

[shreal]

Can anyone provide tutorial/tips/walk through sites that i can look through before i get a book.

I have C# express and web developer express

[shreal]

Once again i have no fucking clue what i'm doing damn i should buy lessons or some shit

[timex]

funny, i use to like programming when i was a kid. now i can't fucking stand it, i only program when i absolutely have to.

[shreal]

Well i'm gonna keep researching and learning, can anyone help with a way to accomplish yellowpage scraping without coding it myself in the meantime?

[Napolean]

funny, i use to like programming when i was a kid. now i can't fucking stand it, i only program when i absolutely have to.

its all fun and games til rent needs to be paid

[iceman20]

C#

Stay away from VB and you won't be corrupted.

[pulaskeet]

C#

Stay away from VB and you won't be corrupted.

i agree with staying away from vb, but the thing i don't like about c# is that it keeps you using windows, and windows servers can suck it as far as i'm concerned

[iceman20]

i agree with staying away from vb, but the thing i don't like about c# is that it keeps you using windows, and windows servers can suck it as far as i'm concerned
True. For all practical purposes if your wanting to work in programming then you'll be designing Windows apps. If you are doing it for yourself, sure be a "purist" and program in Java.

C# is so much cleaner than VB, much more logical.

[iceman20]

bitme.org best site period for books, tutorials

[shreal]

I really appreciate all the help in this thread <3

Can anyone hook me up with a bitme invite?

[shreal]

When developing in C# should i always use console based? What are the drawbacks to using visual?

[pulaskeet]

True. For all practical purposes if your wanting to work in programming then you'll be designing Windows apps. If you are doing it for yourself, sure be a "purist" and program in Java.

its been the other way around for me, honestly. i'll do windows apps if i plan on using it myself, but for me, most contracting jobs i get are running apache on linux servers or scaling can be a potential issue, in which i wouldn't trust windows. using java or php or something along those lines will let you run it on a windows box or a linux box.

i started by programming with vb and did strictly windows apps, but the demand for other areas increased and i got really into cross platform (web) applications.

i guess it boils down to this:

white hat info:

if you want to make desktop applications, msdn is probably your best bet. (c#)

if you want to do web applications, personally i recommend learning php.

if you're unsure, learn java. cross platform desktop or web applications.

black hat:

stick with msdn (c# or vb). you'll find a lot more examples using .net or vb :)

[O0O]

I hate programming now, used to love it in high school. I started out in C++, then learned Java in college, then moved onto PHP and all sorts of other shit. Now here I am three years out of college and I havent programmed a single thing since my Network Programming class(we recreated Napster from scratch).

Java is really easy to learn, my college teaches Java first to everyone new to programming and its a good start because if you understand Java you can easily transition over to C++/C#. PHP is really really useful, I would definately get to figuring that out asap.

ZD

[shreal]

I'll look into Java, thanks for the post.

I just got Delphi 2007, should be fun.

[Audio]

Focus on java, it really will help you if you want to switch to different things

[Moose]

For own personal stuff you should just use .NET

You can build it stable, and if you arent worried about distribution, you wont need to worry about the framework for clients.

For your scraper Google HttpWebRequest, StreamReader

You will probably use Substring at first, but once you get the hang of it you are going to want to learn Regular Expressions.

Programming isnt hard, its having the mental capacity to plan it out in your head. When you tell me that you are going to make a scraper, I can already map it all out in my head. Once you are able to do that, you will be able to make anything.

[swank]

Pascal lol

Hey gangster, hows GFY these days?

[Nore]

BASIC

[iceman20]

When developing in C# should i always use console based? What are the drawbacks to using visual?
Console is great for learning the language. Get you a copy of VS 2008 and you can do both.

I'd start with console learning the language.

Great site here with lots of console tutorials:
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/

[iceman20]

its been the other way around for me, honestly. i'll do windows apps if i plan on using it myself, but for me, most contracting jobs i get are running apache on linux servers or scaling can be a potential issue, in which i wouldn't trust windows. using java or php or something along those lines will let you run it on a windows box or a linux box.

i started by programming with vb and did strictly windows apps, but the demand for other areas increased and i got really into cross platform (web) applications.

i guess it boils down to this:

white hat info:

if you want to make desktop applications, msdn is probably your best bet. (c#)

if you want to do web applications, personally i recommend learning php.

if you're unsure, learn java. cross platform desktop or web applications.

black hat:

stick with msdn (c# or vb). you'll find a lot more examples using .net or vb :)
Definitely true. I work mostly on desktop apps. Web stuff I do(rarely) is php/perl.

[iceman20]

I'll look into Java, thanks for the post.

I just got Delphi 2007, should be fun.
Learn Java and C# will be a cinch. Very similar, both based on C.

Delphi is useless....I had to use it for some specialized apps a few years ago and never saw it again.

[mhu]

i am in java class and think the language is garbage. I just took it because it was the entry level required programming class for the university, and they say they start with java because it's easy. C++ and c# are much more powerful, and PHP is more useful.

First language (except for HTML) that I learned was vb6. That was easy as hell. I would go and learn that using the free vb found on the microsoft website. That should get you started.

[mhu]

Console is great for learning the language. Get you a copy of VS 2008 and you can do both.

I'd start with console learning the language.

Great site here with lots of console tutorials:
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/

i don't know when c# came out, but when I was learning C++ i didn't think it was around. Good reason to learn command line is because if you use c++ it is like an extra page of code just to bring up an interface, whereas you can start with the command line instantly.

[bling]

i don't know when c# came out, but when I was learning C++ i didn't think it was around. Good reason to learn command line is because if you use c++ it is like an extra page of code just to bring up an interface, whereas you can start with the command line instantly.

good job learning things you can pay pakis to do for $1 a day per nurgaman or some shit

[mhu]

good job learning things you can pay pakis to do for $1 a day per nurgaman or some shit

well for christ sake he's looking for a place to start

http://zoneshot.com/server/dg/troll.jpg

[shreal]

Fuck outsourcing shit, I want to learn everything I can on my own. This shit is starting to overwhelm me. Doing tutorials and reading feels like I am not even close to reaching my first goal (data gathering) but if i try to examine source codes of similar projects I get lost and close everything in anger.

Where should i start, i know i'm probably being a naive newb but i want to fucking do this shit so bad, and I can't find a comfortable starting place.

I have Delphi 2007, C#, and VB installed, my brain is clean and im a blank slate, someone set me off into the right direction please. I need this

[bling]

Fuck outsourcing shit, I want to learn everything I can on my own. This shit is starting to overwhelm me. Doing tutorials and reading feels like I am not even close to reaching my first goal (data gathering) but if i try to examine source codes of similar projects I get lost and close everything in anger.

Where should i start, i know i'm probably being a naive newb but i want to fucking do this shit so bad, and I can't find a comfortable starting place.

I have Delphi 2007, C#, and VB installed, my brain is clean and im a blank slate, someone set me off into the right direction please. I need this

yeah you arent, and even after you do all of whatever you are going to do

i guarantee an indian would do it cheaper/faster/better

[shreal]

yeah you arent, and even after you do all of whatever you are going to do

i guarantee an indian would do it cheaper/faster/better

I guarantee that as well, but whats the harm in learning something new? For fun and profit?

[Moose]

Fuck outsourcing shit, I want to learn everything I can on my own. This shit is starting to overwhelm me. Doing tutorials and reading feels like I am not even close to reaching my first goal (data gathering) but if i try to examine source codes of similar projects I get lost and close everything in anger.

Where should i start, i know i'm probably being a naive newb but i want to fucking do this shit so bad, and I can't find a comfortable starting place.

I have Delphi 2007, C#, and VB installed, my brain is clean and im a blank slate, someone set me off into the right direction please. I need this

You dont want people to hold your hand....

I already told you. A simple Webpage parser will be TO THE MOON 15 lines of code

Look up these key words in Google:

httpwebrequest or webrequest
httpwebresponse or webresponse
streamreader
substring

probably just use WebRequest and WebResponse so you dont have to worry about casting.

you will need:
using System.Net;
using System.IO;

its literally a few lines of code to build a quick scraper.... but you have to be ready to program.. Scraper is so general you wont get anywhere... you have to look at HTML, see patterns, and understand what a scraper really is to a computer before you get anywhere.

[shreal]

Thank you, Moose.

[iceman20]

i don't know when c# came out, but when I was learning C++ i didn't think it was around. Good reason to learn command line is because if you use c++ it is like an extra page of code just to bring up an interface, whereas you can start with the command line instantly.
Seems to me like C# came out 2001 or so.

[iceman20]

Thank you, Moose.

I'm telling you...

c-sharp corner is a great site to learn the code...I refer to it all the time.
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/

Loads of tutorials there...

[cs2o7]

VB isn't all that confusing....it's what I was taking in my computer science class.

[dimeroll]

I've done some lolscriptkiddy shit back in the day making aol proggies n what not but that wasn't programming. What should i start learning? VB? Any help is greatly appreciated.
C

pick up a copy of K&R

[Linsys]

Here is the reality, and this is from someone who places people in positions all the time:

IF you wana be 31337 then learn C but no one cares about 31337 any more, thats a fact. Unless you can show years of experience and can really show you know your shit.

IF you wana make money tomorrow then learn .NET bill rate might be like $35-55/hr but not bad money for someone starting out, there is mad .NET work you can't go wrong here, even though I hate .NET and neg noobz who know it, its all about making that money.. so fuck it.. And fuck people like me who give u a hard time for learning it.

Java is going away, it sucks and everyone hates it.

VB is stupid, its noob and no one is gonna hire you over just VB, you need to combine VB with .NET and can get a job anywhere, then you can learn C and become truly a resource for companies.

[shreal]

Here is the reality, and this is from someone who places people in positions all the time:

IF you wana be 31337 then learn C but no one cares about 31337 any more, thats a fact. Unless you can show years of experience and can really show you know your shit.

IF you wana make money tomorrow then learn .NET bill rate might be like $35-55/hr but not bad money for someone starting out, there is mad .NET work you can't go wrong here, even though I hate .NET and neg noobz who know it, its all about making that money.. so fuck it.. And fuck people like me who give u a hard time for learning it.

Java is going away, it sucks and everyone hates it.

VB is stupid, its noob and no one is gonna hire you over just VB, you need to combine VB with .NET and can get a job anywhere, then you can learn C and become truly a resource for companies.
Thank you, I appreciate the quality post.

Can you direct me towards the best guides/books/tuts you can recommend for a newbie lookin to quickly start makin that money.

Or just any great programming learning resources, I have yet to find one that... I guess clicks for me.

[Linsys]

Thank you, I appreciate the quality post.

Can you direct me towards the best guides/books/tuts you can recommend for a newbie lookin to quickly start makin that money.

Or just any great programming learning resources, I have yet to find one that... I guess clicks for me.

I picked up a good .NET book at Barnes and Noble, if you can't afford one check thepiratebay.com the have tons of good .pdf books you can download for free.

[Linsys]

Also, who cares if it "Clicks" with you, I don't even know what the fuck that means, get a book, download the latest Visual Studio, expect for it all to be over your head and read it cover to cover even it makes you wana cry because its all over your head.

Once you finish the book then pick a project in your head and start writing it here are some examples:

1) Craigslist SPAMMER
2) Blogger Generator
3) Forum Spammer
4) Email Scrapper
5) WP Spammer

Then make the program, it will be difficult at first but by the time you finish a few full blown apps then it will keep getting easier.

This is the way I've learned every language I know, I read the book, did all the examples then said "Hmm what kind of app do I need to SPAM some shit.." then I came up with an idea and wrote it, writing SPAM apps that bypass security measures in place by Blogger or Wordpress or Google etc.. will make you 10x better then the average programmer.

[shreal]

Also, who cares if it "Clicks" with you, I don't even know what the fuck that means, get a book, download the latest Visual Studio, expect for it all to be over your head and read it cover to cover even it makes you wana cry because its all over your head.

Once you finish the book then pick a project in your head and start writing it here are some examples:

1) Craigslist SPAMMER
2) Blogger Generator
3) Forum Spammer
4) Email Scrapper
5) WP Spammer

Then make the program, it will be difficult at first but by the time you finish a few full blown apps then it will keep getting easier.

This is the way I've learned every language I know, I read the book, did all the examples then said "Hmm what kind of app do I need to SPAM some shit.." then I came up with an idea and wrote it, writing SPAM apps that bypass security measures in place by Blogger or Wordpress or Google etc.. will make you 10x better then the average programmer.
Your words are mucho mucho appreciated and loud and clear. Thank you.

[Linsys]

Your words are mucho mucho appreciated and loud and clear. Thank you.

Yep, like the other day I was writing a multi-threaded perl script and some dude was like wow thats amazing, I told him yea I learned how to write multi-threaded perl scripts when I wrote my first app that checked anonymous http proxies it was in perl and could check about 100 proxies at a time. But that knowledge has proven to be very valuable in the real world.

[shreal]

Yep, like the other day I was writing a multi-threaded perl script and some dude was like wow thats amazing, I told him yea I learned how to write multi-threaded perl scripts when I wrote my first app that checked anonymous http proxies it was in perl and could check about 100 proxies at a time. But that knowledge has proven to be very valuable in the real world.

Can you define a personality trait or anything that made you "naturally a programmer"? No homo but i've noticed a lot in recent events that natural born programmers are a certain type.

Or am I full of bullshit and it's all learned from scratch through study and trial and error.

[shreal]

Just stoned and want to type this out but:

I remember back when i was 8ish (9 years ago) i idled vb and proggie and file aol priv chatrooms and just took it all in and tried my hand at visual basic and shit. one day i downloaded photoshop and started fucking around in it making layouts for other peoples progs n shit, it wasnt much but it was better than what they could do i guess.

I remember a defining day in my life that i made a layout for a guy and he really fucking liked it and since then i've sharpened my design skills and here I am getting paid freelance without a degree or high school diploma yet.

Maybe if i had chosen to continue my vb fucking around stage I would have developed my programming skills, maybe this is all a given and obvious human development shit but I just had to type that all out, it's been in my head lately.

I just think I am in a good place now, right on the verge of graduation, have a tiny bit of experience in i and I'm still young enough to learn shit that if i focus on programming for a bit i'll be a pretty well balanced developer, and i hear thats pretty valuable.

All i've wanted from this thread is a little guidance and you guys have been a real help, i'm glad i decided to start posting at dg, thanks all.

[Linsys]

Can you define a personality trait or anything that made you "naturally a programmer"? No homo but i've noticed a lot in recent events that natural born programmers are a certain type.

Or am I full of bullshit and it's all learned from scratch through study and trial and error.

Well lets see I hate programing, did I say I fucking hate to program? But the reality is when I'm contracted out to support 2,000 servers I better know how to write applications that can run on thousands of servers at once.

Did I say I hate to program? Well I DO I FUCKING HATE IT, but its part of the job and I better fucking know it and I better fucking know it well, now I'm no programmer that can build some WOW game engine from scratch those guys have to be fucking amazing, but I better know perl, php, .NET, shell script, Ruby, and AJAX if I want to pull in the wide range of projects that are dropped on my plate each day.

I hate to program, but its part of the job, a part I can't get around, I'm not a programmer and I don't claim to be but when I walk into a customer's environment and I can script something in ruby or perl that can automate a process in 10 minutes that makes me extremely valuable.

So what is my personality trait? Nothing, I guess I'm willing to do the shit I hate because its part of what I love. I love to architect environments, I love security, I love designing disaster recovery plans for companies and I get paid well to do it, but part of what makes me valuable is that I can automate tasks.


Everything is learned from Trial and Error, my step-father is a landscaper and ran a very successful landscaping business for 30+ years before he retired no one taught me shit, they had the money to buy me a computer and said here learn what you can, I decided as a teenager I didn't want to build sprinkler systems for the rest of my fucking life.

Sometimes I have to learn the shit I don't wana learn just to make it in the world, I also get to learn a lot of shit I want to learn.

I'm learning Ruby right now because it has some amazing tools for SSH remote automating but I fucking hate it, but I love the rest of what is included in building environments / data centers from scratch.

If you can't handle doing some shit you don't like in exchange for some stuff you do like then you'll never make it.

[shreal]

I understand that mentality completely, I see programming as a valuable quality and tool. I don't want to program per se, I want to create tools that work for me.

Thank you Linsys, I really appreciate it nurga.

[djmollusk]

LOL I have to admit that I'm guilty of this, I also always try to find new ways of doing things and the end result is almost always "why didnt I just do it this way all along?"

I'm not sure whats involved with making a yellowpages scraper (unless you mean just parsing information out of the site), if I'm correct this shouldnt be too hard especially since .net already has web components that make page requests simple.

Its very true what they say, you learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes. Don't get held up on projects because you think you're doing it wrong or not the most efficient. You'll eventually learn the right way.

The PHP community is like that only because of all the people who *think* they know PHP. Knowing how to do includes in php doesn't mean you know PHP. Interviewing web developers I find thats probably the most lied about skill of all. They say they know PHP and they mostly just know of PHP.

[Lil Miss Carob Snuggles]

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[rmk]

toby do you want another week?

quit trolling whywork jerky

[smurda]

http://98.15.215.167/eBooks/Programming&#37;20and%20Coding/

[rjjm94]

If you are interested in "spamming" and writing web apps I found a very useful tool for generating get and post codes for VB as well as C#... you can download it for free here:
http://foxtrot-xray.com/main/prod/dev/web_robot

it an easy way to perform website scraping and to interact with forms etc.

[Lil Miss Carob Snuggles]

If you are interested in "spamming" and writing web apps I found a very useful tool for generating get and post codes for VB as well as C#... you can download it for free here:
http://foxtrot-xray.com/main/prod/dev/web_robot

it an easy way to perform website scraping and to interact with forms etc.Hi! and welcome to the forums! :)

[ryph]

.

[nox]

i suggest head first c# bro

[digfira]

C# and Java are very clean high-level languages to start with.

Python is also good for beginners but it's a scripting language and has quite a few quirks.


I also agree with Vershun. C# will be most easiest way.